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![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
Here's an amusing possible solution to the problems with this variant:
combine it with <a href='../other.dir/alice.html'>Alice Chess</a>.
<p>
Here's how it might go. You add a second board, like in Alice Chess,
except the 2nd board has reversed checkering: a1 is white, not black.
When a piece's move would otherwise cause it to move to a square of a
different color, it instead lands on the equivalent square of the
other board. Thus Knights always switch boards when they move, and
Bishops never switch boards.
<p>
There are a number of ways to handle switching boards:
<p>
<ul>
<li>Alice Chess-style. The move on the board on which the piece
starts must be legal as in orthochess, and the square on the other
board must be empty.</li>
<p>
<li>The Plunge. A piece moving to another color may only to move to
a square that is empty on their current board, then they plunge through
the board to the equivalent square on the other board, capturing any
opposing pieces they land on, except for Pawns who may not plunge to
occupied squares.</li>
<p>
<li>The Switch-a-roo. A piece makes a normal orthochess move on the board
on which it starts, and then, if the destination square is of a different
color than the piece's starting square, it moves to an equivalent
position on the other board. If the space on the other board is occupied,
then the piece occupying that space is moved to the space just landed on on
the board that the moving piece started on. This version actually allows
Bishops on the 2nd board.</li>
<p>
<li>The Last Square. The piece's move is as normal, except that if the
piece would land on a color of square different from which it started, the
last square of its move is the equivalent space on the other board, and the
move does not pass through what would be the final square of its move in
orthochess. The last square on the board on which the board-changing piece
moved from may be occupied by a friendly or opposing piece -- it doesn't
matter as the moving piece does not pass through it.
</ul>
<p>
I don't know which would be best.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Question: can a wounded friend move over (but obviously not stop on) a square occupied by a mummy? i am not sure. if anybody wants to try this game with me by email, send to good7972@hotmail.com
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Editor](/index/editor.gif)
I wish I had thought of this! The idea of finding the weakest possible pieces that still provide a chess-like game is inspired. For some reason, it reminded me of my attempt to create a <a href='../newideas.dir/construction.html'>chess variant construction set</a>. The concept of a flipping move to switch between capture-only and move-only is something I never thought of. On the whole, a well-thought-out, and aesthetically pleasing game. I must try it out sometime!
![Editor](/index/editor.gif)
It's an interesting idea, but would make for a more positional game with
more trading off of material. I would recommend these Rook-level pieces
perhaps for larger variants which would still include the usual knights
and
bishops.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Okay, but I don't believe that the Chancellor is worth less than the Q. The midgame forking power of a piece that moves in 12 directions is quite amazing, the Chancellor has exceptional ability to save an inferior game by giving perpetual check, and finally, the drawn cases of K+Q versus K+P are wins in the endgame K+NR vs K+P. Of course there are positions that favor the Q, but all in all, my experience says they are equal.
Of course, there is the issue that on a larger board, since leapers are
weakened, most of these pieces are probably not quite Rook-level anymore.
One piece I do want to try in a larger variant someday is the NH (Knight
+ (3,0) leaper), since the H portion of the move would allow it to move
around a 10x10 board slightly faster than a Knight moves around an 8x8 board.
![Editor](/index/editor.gif)
Continuing Peter's idea from his 'Alice Chess' comment on <a href='../diffmove.dir/monochro.html'>Monochromatic Chess</a>...
<p>I don't like the idea that Bishops would be restricted to their initial board. Perhaps giving the bishops a non-capturing wazir move would fix this. Option 3 is also a nice idea (the switch-a-roo).
<p>On the whole, I like this set of ideas. Perhaps it can be developed, with some play-testing, into a workable variant of Alice Chess, although Alice Chess itself is difficult enough to play... :)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Rook-Level Chess is a very nice idea. Of course, the Queen isn't R-level... As for K+ND versus K, confining the K is tricky but it can be done. Example: BKb8 WKc6, White ND e4, Black's move 1...Kc8 2. Nd6+ Kb8 3. Kb6 Ka8 4. NDc8+ Kb8 5. NDc6+ and 6. ND a6 mate.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
A Wounded Fiend (not 'friend' unless you are a truly scary creature) is impeded by mummies, as indeed a Rook would be. Notice also that it cannot retrace its steps because of its own ichor, and therefore, as Azgoroth once said, 'carries within it the seeds of its own destruction'. (The endgame where each side has one Wounded Fiend and nothing else can be quite interesting.) This game is tough to get used to. For a while I thought I had made a major rules error, but in fact when a Leaf Pile engulfs, the mummy does not appear until it moves on, and so the Leaf Pile is vulnerable to being engulfed by an enemy Leaf Pile. If it were not so, the first player would attack with Leaf Pile (engulfing his own Human for greater speed) and win by force.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
I am grateful for your effusive comments. There will be more on the subject, as I like the game and have analyzed the Weakest K versus Weakest King endgame -- it was very interesting. But at the moment, I've gotten out a chessboard and some coins (with which to mark mummies and statues) and am studying the play of the Game of Nemoroth.
There's an idea for the Bishop's move -- give it a colorbound Wazir's move,
so that it can only use it to change boards.
Just repeat that term: <i>A colorbound Wazir's move</i>. I love to be
able to say that and have it mean something
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
If we created higher dimensional analogues of the Feeble/Weak/Weakest pieces, would we be able to make a playable higher-dimensional CV with them (perhaps even a Chess For Any Number of Dimensions)?
![A miscellaneous item](/index/misc.gif)
Hey, David. Somehow my last comment in the 'Rook-Level Chess' thread
turned into its own 'Rook-Level' thread (no 'Chess'). Any ideas?
<p><i>Hey Peter, I think it's fixed. There was an issue with spaces I think. Time will tell...</i>
Thanks for the end-game! I deliberately left the Queen out of the leveling
so as not to make thinks <strong>too</strong> uniform.
<p>
I wonder if the the <b>Rook-Level Chess I</b> army vs the <b>Rook-Level
Chess II</b> army would be a balanced form of Chess with Different Armies?
I would think so, but the <b>RLC II</b> army does have a significant 'can
mate' advantage. Does it matter?
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Oops. It seeme I misremembered what the Spirit told me in my dream, for when I tried to play the game it was too easy to end up in an impasse with no good way to break it; and the reason was clearly that the Go Aways were not performing their intended role. Then I tried a few games in which the Go Away moved by leaping two squares Rookwise or by moving one square diagonally, and things seemed to work much better -- in fact, just about exactly right, in conformance to the original vision of the game. It is funny how the Wounded Fiend seems to be such an unimportant piece, when it was the original inspiration for the game. Under 'Interactions', it should be added that 'Leaping pieces can cross unharmed a square seen by a Basilisk, for their talons never touch the ground and therefore the Basilisk does not see them.' The interactions are so complicated! I need to make a chart to see if I left anything else out.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Because they are so weak, the Feeble/Weakest pieces would do well on a
3x3x8 board, I think.
![A game information page](/index/game.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Addition to Interactions made as requested. Did you also mean to add a
diagonal step move to the Go Away?
<p>
<br>
<i>(Fnord)</i>
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Under 'compelled Moves', there should be a final notice that 'Sometimes it is possible to make a saving move with some other piece than the compelled one. For example, suppose that your Basilisk has been pushed onto an occupied square, and so is compelled to move off, but has no legal move; if you can engulf your own Basilisk with a leaf pile, you have removed the condition causing the compulsion, and therefore you have saved the game.' And, under 'Interactions', 'If a Go Away which is compelled to flee an enemy Ghast is next to the Ghast, it can scream GO AWAY! instead of moving. It ends its turn one move further away than it started and so it has met the compulsion to flee. A Leaf Pile which is next to a Ghast can engulf the Ghast; as it then no longer needs to flee, its compulsion has been satisfied.'
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Thy bidding done once more, Oh Gnohmon.
![A Zillions-of-Games file](/index/zillions.gif)
![ZIP file](/index/zipfile.gif)
updated March 30, 2002: Corrected the Bowman move (it wasn't registering when the square to capture was off-board). updated April 7, 2002: Corrected castling in Quantum-0, -I (one side was impossible, both sides ignored intervening pieces. Argh.)
![An article on pieces](/index/piece.gif)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
<blockquote>Would 0.91 times 0.7 times 0.7 be correct? Yes, this is the answer to 'it can move there if either d2 or f2 is empty AND e3 is empty AND the corresponding square (d4 if d2, or f4 if f2) is empty'.</blockquote>
This isn't right (I think). It can move there if e3 is empty and either d2 and d4 are empty or f2 and f4 are empty. So that's 0.7 * (1 - (1 - 0.49) * (1 - 0.49) ), which works out to 0.51793, as compared to 0.4459.
I think the generalized equation, where X is the (always even) number of squares moved, would be 0.7^(X/2 - 1) * (1 - (1 - 0.7^(X/2))^2)
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
I think the way to find the on-board probability is to divide it into two
parts. The on-board probablity for having two paths on a (X,0) (where X
is
any even number) move would be (X,2). The probability for having just
one
path on a (X,0) move would be (X,6) (on a 8x8 board, generally (X,board
size - 2)). I think this works - moving two squares up the board can be
done on all but the last two rows, and has two paths on all but the outer
two columns.
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
If I'm right in the previous two comments (and if I've done the
calculations right), the mobility is 9.7.
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Excellent for the feedback, that is. You have no idea how hungry I have been for so many years to find a mathematician or statistician who would be in the mood to criticize my numbers or my methods and point out the errors that must be there. With all due respect, I give you this instant reply, but I do not examine the specifics of what you said nor do I respond to them. I am in the midst of other things and not in condition to reply. I give you my double-barrelled platinum promise that the specific numeric algorithmic probabilistic things you said will be closely and extensively examined by me and that a serious reply will be forthcoming. Meanwhile, literary criticism of your reply suggests that you agree with my basic method but merely cavil at a few of my specific applications. Is this right? If so, I celebrate. If not, I cerebrate. If you haven't read my general 'theory of piece values', please please do and if you can (though I hope you can't) tell me I'm full of it. The general public here believes in my numbers more than I believe in my numbers. Perhaps you can have the deciding vote, since paolo has declined to speak up. Did you know that a giant standing on a midget's shoulders can see further? Well, in doing this math stuff about piece values let me tell you I've always felt like a midget. But right now I can only write silly answers. I just spent a few hours writing serious. The promises I made in previous paragraphs are serious, though.
![Unverified Commentor](/index/unverified.gif)
Dear 'Editor in Yellow', Programmers who have junketed to i18n fora know that col[u]rs have various meaning in various cultures. For example, in Italian, yellow is the color of mystery.[1] http://www.panix.com/~gnohmon/nemofull.html is a text which should be added as a supplemental and corrective link, but not just yet. My apologies for having made so many errors and rewrites and addenda. http://www.panix.com/~gnohmon/nemofull.html should be read and criticized by our critical public until a critical mass of agreement is reached, and then the editor should step in, whether yellow or dark sea green 3. http://www.panix.com/~gnohmon/nemofull.html should soon be on the cv pages, but first the multitude should fish in it for errors and omissions. http://www.panix.com/~gnohmon/nemofull.html should someday be authoratative, but meanwhile, please allow me to grovel and cringe, O great Editor who knows not his ablative from his elboh, may I humbly beg you to please change for me one great omission in the original Nemoroth file? As stated in http://www.panix.com/~gnohmon/nemofull.html, repetition of position is forbidden! Your humble supplicant is humbled with shame, how can I have omitted to say this? I be so ipse dissed that I'd almost seppuku but no, so much better to tofuku. I have disemboweled a bean curd to express my embare-ass-ment. By all means, treat http://www.panix.com/~gnohmon/nemofull.html as authoritative, and please accept from this humble supplicant a case of root beer, or if you prefer, a single bottle of Hennepin.
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