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Now that this comments page is up, I'd like to ask the regular readers of www.chessvariants.com to comment on Doublechess. Doublechess is the first chess variant which I invented, and I think it is my best one of all the ones I have created. It is my pride and joy. At the time I submitted it to this site I had learned that I was just a few months too late to enter it into the Large Variants contest that was being held at the time. What a pity! I feel that Doublechess would have been a very strong contender, but by the time I first learned of this site's existence, the deadline for submissions for the contest had passed. Doublechess' page on this site is unique in many ways. You won't find too many other games on this site which have sample games linked to it, and one of the games is annotated in detail. (The link to my 'Doublechess web site' is no longer valid.) Doublechess can be played by email on Richard's Play By Email server, and I frequently conduct Doublechess tournaments on PBM. The next one may be beginning in a few months and I will post an announcement about it here (as I did recently for the forthcoming Omegachess tournament which I will be running on PBM as well) when I am ready to begin it. Doublechess is a very simple variant. Simply lay two 8 by 8 chess boards side by side. Use two chess sets, and replace the second set of kings with a third set of queens. (if one does not have a third set of chess queen pieces handy, substitutes can be used until they are captured. Coins work well, for instance, a penny for a white queen and a nickel for a black queen.) Set up the first army of pieces in the traditional setup (RBNQKBRN) in files E to L and the second army out in the wings (RBNQ, QBNR) in files A to D and M to P. You will notice a few interesting strategic points about Doublechess. Opposing bishops start along the same diagonals as each other, often promting them to be quickly traded off if the opportunity presents itself. If they avoid an early exchange, bishops of like color can double themselves along the same diagonal to form a battery in much the same way that one might double their rooks along the same file in chess. Notice that whereas white begins with two dark squared bishops on the left side of the board, or queenside (in Doublechess terminology, the 'queenside' refers to files A to H, and 'kingside' refers to files I to P, mimicking the same sides of the boards which these terms refer to in regular chess), and black has two light squared bishops on the queenside. Likewise, white has two light squared bishops to start the game on the kingside, and black has two dark squared bishops on each side. Each side can try to exploit the other's weaknesses on light or dark squares on each half of the board. The way the board is set up, as players begin to develop their pieces and pawns, the pieces tend to engage each other on each half of the board in about the same amount of time as they do in regular chess. In the middle game it is often the case where pieces will be interacting with each other and threatening each other on each half of the board completely independent from what is going on on the other side of the board. In some ways then, Doublechess is like playing two games in one, though one really needs to look at the board as a whole to truly understand and appreciate the game. There are other strategic differences between Doublechess and regular chess which make my variant exciting and unique. It is more common to sacrifice material for attack in Doublechess than it is in regular chess, since one has so much material at one's disposal to attack with. In Doublechess then, obviously king safety becomes extremely important. Thus another axiom of dc is that it is quite possible to win despite a material disadvantage, more often than one can overcome such a deficit in regular chess. As long as one has enough pieces to launch an attack, they can make things interesting. I should also point out that the one rule that is unique and distinctive to Doublechess is the castling rule (see dc's page for full explanation of the castling rule), and the pros and cons of long castling vs. short castling can be long debated. It's another twist to the game which makes it interesting. One advantage that my variant has over other CVs is that it only uses orthodox pieces, so it is very easy to learn how to play. Perhaps more than any other CV, Doublechess has the 'feel' of regular chess. There is a ZRF file available for download at the bottom of Doublechess' page. I urge everyone who has not played it yet who owns ZILLIONS OF GAMES to download Doublechess and try it out. I welcome comments from everyone, pro or con, as to how they would rate Doublechess as a chess variant. What are this variants' strengths and weaknesses? Finally I would say that, although I realize I am very biased in the matter ;-) I feel that Doublechess is such an excellent variant that it deserves consideration as one of this site's 'Recognized Chess Variants' and as inventor of this game I am necessarily disqualified from nominating it to that position. Might someone else who has an equal appreciation for this game take up the gauntlet and nominate it along with an eloquent essay on my game's merits?
It would seem that I am not the first person to create a CV on an 11 by 11 board. (see my SPINAL TAP CHESS) It would be interesting to play a game of TERROR CHESS (for WHITE) vs. SPINAL TAP CHESS (for BLACK) as a game of Chess Between Different Armies !!! PETER ARONSON I challenge you to create a ZRF for such a game IMMEDIATELY!! :-) I could then challenge Brian Wong to a game by email! (if anyone has his address!) (mine is DavidNYJfan@hotmail.com) though I suspect that TERROR CHESS has the more powerful army! Then again who can say for sure? TERROR CHESS vs. SPINAL TAP CHESS A game of Chess Between Different Armies created by David Short with thanks to Brian Wong. a b c d e f g h i j k +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 11 |*R*|*S*|*W*|*V*|*Q*|*K*|*M*|*W*|*V*|*S*|*R*| 11 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 10 |*P*|*P*|*P*|*P*|*Cr|*Cr|*Cr|*P*|*P*|*P*|*P*| 10 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 9 | |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| | 9 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 8 |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| 8 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 7 | |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| | 7 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 6 |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| 6 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 5 | |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| | 5 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 4 |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| 4 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 3 | |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| |:::| | 3 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 2 |:P:| P |:P:| P |:P:| P |:P:| P |:P:| P |:P:| 2 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ 1 | R |:B:| N |:C:| A |:K:| Q |:Mr| B |:N:| R | 1 +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ a b c d e f g h i j k Diagram index: R- ROOK B- BISHOP N- KNIGHT C- CARDINAL A- AMAZON K- KING Q- QUEEN Mr- MARSHALL P- PAWN Cr- CRAB S- SQUIRE V- VICEROY W- WIZARD M- MINISTER Pawns move 1, 2, or 3 squares on their initial move and the en passant rule is the same as it is in OMEGACHESS. Each side may castle as its game's rules dictate.
The knight is clearly stronger than the rook: in the center of a crowded board, it can control 16 squares,which is more than the rook on an empty board. The value of this knight should be close to that of the bishop, a bit less,I guess. The rook is therefore the only minor piece, and the most difficult to develop.Opening is hard stuff. I suppose it consists in opening files or diagonales to make quick and violent attacks by exchanging pawns, and making gambits (the pawn's relative value to other pieces is decreased compared to fide chess).
How about the Tripunch Terrors, another army to compete against the Fabulous FIDEs? :-) King and Pawns are standard. The rest of the pieces are from Tripunch Chess, but they flip as pieces do in Weakest Chess- these pieces have capturing and non-capturing modes, and can flip (as a move) from one to the other. To keep the pawn line defended, the Reapers and Combine start in capturing mode; the others start in non-capturing mode. If flipping pieces are half as strong as regular pieces (and that seems to be the estimate in the Weakest Chess article), then the Tripunch Terrors are about 4 Pawns too strong as described. So we remove the ability to move as a Bishop from the Harvesters and Combine... and then we should have a game. So here's the official lineup: the Flipping Reaper, the Flipping Nightrider, the Flipping Aanca, and the Flipping... the Flipping... Give me some time. I'll come up with a name for that last one. :-D
It would seem that TERROR CHESS is identical to THE SULTAN'S GAME http://www.chessvariants.com/large.dir/sultan.html with the exception that the positions of the marshall and cardinal are reversed. THE SULTAN'S GAME pre-dates TERROR CHESS on this web site by three years. Nevertheless I still propose that my idea above for a variant of chess between different armies would be intriguing. Oh and I would suggest variants with and alternately without the 'Battle Move' when programming the ZRF for the above proposed new variant. Players can decide for themselves which they prefer to use.
Gee, now I wonder where he could have gotten the idea for this game, huh? Well, you know what they say, 'immitation is the sincerest form of flattery' so I guess I should be honored, eh? To anyone who is not overly familiar with this web site I suggest you scroll down on this comments page and click on the link for Double Chess below or find it in the alphabetical index (the one with my name next to it). Anyone can create a variant on a 16 by 8 board but it's not going to have the same 'feel' of regular chess like my variant Doublechess does. I have always felt that games with two kings are flawed. Chess should be single-minded. Checkmate one king, period!
This game is really something! To me the best large variant of chess! WHY is it not a recongnized variant yet???? :-)
Tony, what you say about the added or diminished relative scopes of the knights and bishops in double-board variants is true, just as it is in larger variants to begin with (the knight is an extremely weak piece in 10 by 10 variants) but the beauty of a game like my Doublechess variant which I invented is that the knights still have their roles to play. Like I said before, pieces on each half of the board tend to engage each other at the same rate they do in regular chess. Pawns challenge each other, knights move up to the third (or sixth rank, for black) rank to attack enemy pawns, files open up for rooks and queens, diagonals open up for bishops and queens. I think one point that needs to be made here is that in Full Double Chess, stronger pieces are used, and that's fine, if you are a player who likes new fangled pieces that can do neat little tricks and jump through hoops. My Doublechess is more traditional, uses only orthodox pieces and has the look and feel of traditional regular chess. So whether a game like my Doublechess or the new Full Double Chess appeals to someone is going to be a matter of personal taste, I guess. p.s. I would still like to encourage people to add comments below to my Doublechess variant, for which I began a discussion.
Interesting game. The wide board creates both tactical and strategic
situations that are 'regional'. The doubled King adds a certain element
of interest. The strong pieces promote tactics. However, they do not
overwhelm the game because the large board still allows for strategic
maneuvers.
<p>
I'm sure interesting sub-variants could be created with different setups
or different mix of pieces. One possible issue, though, is that the overall
evolution of the game may move more quickly than players are able to
develop their pieces, thus leading to a certain amount of attrition-type
of play, more tactics and less strategy. But I am not sure that this
overwhelms the game. It seems playable.
Regarding some of the debate about faerie pieces versus traditional
pieces, I personally tend to design games with traditional pieces because usually I am more interested in the game system than the pieces themselves.
However, I have played many variants with interesting faerie pieces. The movement of the pieces is an appealing element in itself. In this game they work quite well. And, actually, the mix here is not all that exotic--
as variants go. Check-out Mulligan-Stew Chess
<a href="../42.dir/mulligan-stew.html">Mulligan Stew Chess</a> for an
example of faerie pieces gone a-muck, but in a very playable and
interesting game--with double Kings, by the way!
I've played it and I agree with Ralph--the best way to introduce randomness into Chess. A checkmate rule I find satisfactory: If a player is mated by a single move, the game is over. If a player is mated by two consecutive moves, if taking two consecutive moves would relieve the mate, the mated player wins the next toss automatically and can play two moves. For stalemate the rule is the same.
Perhaps Tutti Frutti Chess could be considered a Half Board version of Double Chess, because it uses all possible combinations of the basic pieces on an 8x8 board. However, Double Chess has the interesting thought of having two Kings, which seems to be an excellent inspiration for making sense of such a wide board.
Definitely an amusing game! I particularly like the Minister (RLF), as it's a piece, while obvious in design, I haven't seen before. I find myself wondering about its value. On an 8x8 board, I would be fairly confident in assigning it a value greater than a Queen -- about a Raven (RNN) in fact. But on an 11x11 board, the shorter range components of its movement are worth less, and so a Queen -- which is all long range elements after all -- gains in relative power.
<p>Anyone out there have an opinion?
This is a cool idea. Someone ought to write a Zillions of Games rules file for this game. (I might one at some point, but I'm getting a bit backed up.) Having Zillions play itself at 3 minutes a turn on a fast machine might expose any forced wins.
This is very nice, but I find myself wondering about the army
selection process. I can see several possibilities:
<ul>
<li>
Each player writes down their section secretly, and the selections
are simultaneously revealed;
</li>
<li>
White makes their selections, announces them to black, then black
selects;
</li>
<li>
White makes one of their choices, then black chooses a piece, then
white, etc. until both players have chosen their Queen, Rook, Bishop
and Knight;
</li>
<li>
White selects their Queen, then black selects a Queen,
then white selects their Rook, then black selects a Rook,
then white selects their Bishop, then black selects a Bishop,
then white selects their Knight, then black selects a Knight;
</li>
<li>
Like about, but in order Knight, Bishop, Rook, Queen.
</li>
</ul>
Clearly all of the above would work reasonably well, but is there a
prefered way to select the armies?
I recently finished a PBeM game of this variant with Tony Quintanilla
(which I won't post due to embarassing turn 18 mate by a RNA
supported by a BD <g>), and found this a very exciting game.
<p>
As we all know, a Pawn is only as strong as the hand that holds it,
and Tony usually beats me at games that fairly closely resemble usual
Chess. But I found this game particularly interesting as I was sure
I had picked a stronger team than his:
<blockquote>
<DL>
<DT><B>White (PBA)</B></DT>
<DD><B>Queen</B>: RfbNFA</DD>
<DD><B>Rook</B>: RfbN</DD>
<DD><B>Bishop</B>: BW</DD>
<DD><B>Knight</B>: NF</DD>
</DL>
<p>
<DL>
<DT><B>Black (TQ)</B></DT>
<DD><B>Queen</B>: RNA</DD>
<DD><B>Rook</B>: RF</DD>
<DD><B>Bishop</B>: BD</DD>
<DD><B>Knight</B>: NW</DD>
</DL>
</blockquote>
Now Tony's Knight is color-changing, and his Bishop is color-bound,
but with all of that power on the board, it didn't seem to matter.
I suspose if the game had lasted longer and we had gotten down to
fewer pieces, it might. As it was, it felt like playing in a
minefield (which, IMHO opinion, is a <u>good</u> thing).
Excellent piece of detective work and extrapolation!
I do like this game, although the Cavalier is a very 'irregular piece'. I propose to replace it's movement by the one of the Croocked Bishop! This would produce a very enjoyable game, don't you agree? :-)) The other pieces, I believe, are well balanced for 10x10 board, and the fact that Knights depart from the 2nd row turns them more valuable in the opening and during the rest of the game (a problem with other 10x10 board variants that place them on the 1st row!). Please comment me on this to: nuno_cruz78@hotmail.com
I would have to agree that the Cavalier (Gryphon + Aanca) is a kind of
extreme piece, but if you look at Ralph Betza's note on the value of such
<a href='../piececlopedia.dir/bent-riders.html'>Bent Riders</a>, you will
see that he rates such a piece as being worth slightly less than an
Amazon (Queen + Knight) on an 8x8 board [Although honestly requires me to
add that Ralph himself is not entirely convinced of his piece evaluation
system, although in my experiance it is at least approximately right most
of the time]. On a 10x10 board the Cavalier gains some additional value,
while the Amazon would probably break even (Queen components gain in value,
Knight components lose in value) -- so call the Cavalier a rough equivalent
of an Amazon.
<p>
Now, would two Amazons be too strong for a 10x10 board? It comes down to
a matter of taste I suppose, but I have to suspect that as Tony Paletta
noted in a comment on <a href='../large.dir/full-double-chess.html'>Full
Double Chess</a>, their presence would tend to
reduce the minor pieces to cannon fodder (although there is fun to be had
with weak pieces).
<p>
In any case, I rather like your idea of substituting Cooked Bishops -- the
world needs more games with Crooked Bishops (and where, you may ask are
<em>your</em> games with Crooked Bishops, Mr. Aronson? Err, well, the
<a href='../dpieces.dir/fighting-fizzies.html'>Fighting Fizzies</a> have
a WzFF as a Queen, and otherwise, they're all in the future . . .)
<hr>
I'm commenting on your comment here, rather than by e-mail as you suggested
as that way other people can join in the discussion and have fun.
Hi Hans,
<p>Just thought I would let you know I have redesigned the site for chance
chess and it now includes an online deck. No online chess board, but
players can play with the deck on the computer with a chess board nearby.
I
also registered the domain name of chancechess.com and it should be
online
as soon as tomorrow.
<p>Thanks for keeping our info on your site all these years.
:)This page is excellent! It couldn't be better. It shows you all the rules, diagrams and all. Its great! :)
Good :)
I can't say this page is excellent, because it has the old F.I.D.E. Rules.
Eaxctly what I was looking for!
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