Comments by jean-louiscazaux

Hi Greg

Maybe I did something wrong. Currently I'm helping Fredrik having a hot and big project on Jetan. We need a preset with the correct setup (the existing one has Princess and Chief wrongly switched) and possibly with another character table (the existing design are cute and beautiful but not practical at all). I've tried to do something alone, and the only I could do was to create a new preset. So I changed the name but it is exactly the same game. It is here: https://www.chessvariants.com/play/pbm/play.php?game%3DJetan-of-Barsoom%26settings%3DJetan-of-Barsoom I think that if you help me we could erase the preset I've made and just correct the new one. I'm sorry if I've made some confusion. Thank you for your help

I have this book and as an historian myself I am in close contact with Jim Png. We had a very long conversation just today. Coincidence. Jim Png is not saying that chess has been invented in China. I know that this issue is a complex one, too complex maybe for in hurry readers. What is explained here is that xiangqi had predecessors as a game, deep in ancient history. This is known and recognised by modern historians. What it is unknown is the relationship between these ancient mentions of xiangqi and the xiangqi that is known after Cen Shun story in the 9th century. Maybe it was another game, maybe not. The great merit of Jim Png is the meticulously collection of all testimonies from ancient Chinese texts and his trial to bring that to us. He does (because he is preparing another book) a work much valuable than many other writers have tried to do before him about Chinese Chess. And much more also that so many writers who are continuing to ignore a possible Chinese contribution just because they have once been told that chess had been invented in India and it cannot be otherwise.

Yes the connexion with liubo is puzzling and stimulating. Not only because the liubo board had a central "water" and there is a river in xiangqi. The rules of Liubo are still unknown, they are just guessed, and maybe more than one game was played with this material. There are 6 pieces per side, 1 being more important. There is 1 general and 5 pawns in xq. The liubo board is heavily marked, as the one for xq. Is that a coincidence or the trace of an influence? The fact that Janggi, which is not known before the 16th century, has no river is of course not a proof at all against a relation between liubo and xiangqi! Liubo disappeared just when xiangqi started to grow and this deserves some further studies.

I consider Jim Png as the person with the highest knowledge on history of Chinese games we have today.

Hi. I would like to know if it is possible and how to go back few moves. In a game of Jetan that we need to record, I've made a wrong move, few moves ago. As the rules are not enforced, I made that mistake. Is it possible to go back and cancel all subsequent moves? Thanks very much

It is rich matter, not simple to discuss in short sentences on a forum especially for me who doesn't master English language like you who makes the points like a lawyer. The fact that no other Asian chess than xiangqi has a river is not a discovery. Shogi is certainly more borrowing to South Asian varieties than from the continent as it has been demonstrated by Japanese historians, Sittuyin/Makruk are obviously descending from Indian varieties as these regions were under strong Indian cultural influence at least until the 13th c., and Janggi is not known in its ancient form so nobody knows if it had a river first or not. I, and Jim Png like me, do not believe that xiangqi is a direct descendent of Liubo, but that there is a link between them. For what I'm concerned I believe I've been clear on that in my books and my website. But I stop to discuss, people want to simplify everything. There are many people now on social networks, Wikipedia, etc., who knows everything at first sight, and say it loud especially against the authors of books who are never sure of nothing. So we are happy that with your "inductive case" it is now clear that Liubo has not influenced the formation of xiangqi. We are progressing and we can go on.

Thank you. Done.

good finding Danke schön

I have not understood if the name of this game is Makpong or Simplified Makpong. If it is Simplified M., what is Makpong?

Does anyone know games which are using Alfil/Dabbaba/Threeleaper/Tripper. Musketeer Chess has it as an Hawk. Is there other games, and how they call this piece?

I wrote this page 24 years ago and I included this:

A variant

Even the Martians have variants on their own type of chess. According to Burroughs, the older version of Jetan had Odwars instead of Fliers that could not jump over intervening pieces.

I can't find where I had taken this information. It is simply wrong. Burroughs did not write this, actually he wrote that the Odwar and the Flier have the same power and move. It is just a different name for the SAME piece.

Letting this wrong information is confusing a lot of people. I cannot modify this page myself, so I beg an editor to simply remove this small paragraph which is incorrect. Thanks

The link for the rules in the page of the preset for Chess 9x9 does not send to the rules of this game but to the rules of Cardinal Chess instead. Maybe this should be corrected

I apologise if my question is trivial, all this looks very complex for me. I want to use a set "Alfaerie for Metamachy" but for the moment it is limited to 26 pieces, using the 26 letters of the alphabet. Would it be possible to add few more using other letters such as the diacritic letters may be like é/É? Thanks

Nice design

Dear all, HG, yes I feel the same need. I hope you will be able to implement these features. Many thanks to all editors.

It seems to me that the black player who chooses the setup has an advantage to his white opponent who doesn't know what will be the setup. It is true that the black player may know an opening theory for his favorite setup but as they are a lot of possible setups, one would have to know a lot of opening theories which is reducing the impact in my opinion.

I wish I could use the Alfaerie icon for the Sergeant for the Maasai on ranks 3 instead of the one I used instead but I don't know how to do it.

This game was once considered to be included in the book "A World of Chess". When you say that it has been adopted as the official chess of Vietnam, what source or element do you have to support this statement? I am interested to know.