[ List Earliest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]
Comments by JorgKnappen


A maybe funny question: What happens to a pawn when it is converted into an undead piece? Say, a white undead bishop attacks a black pawn: Does the black pawn turn into an undead white pawn or does it turn into an undead black pawn under white's control? The difference between the two is the inherited directionality: By becoming an undead white pawn the black pawn turns 180 degrees and marches against his old camp; while an undead black pawn under white's control continues to march against the white camp (and may block white pawns in their progress). Another question: Can an undead piece attack a life piece of its own camp? Because this action may strengthen the piece by taking its life it might be a favourable move.

Well, I have to disagree with the previous comment from George Duke: In fact, the rule that a pawn can promote to *any* piece in the starting setup including the opponents' pieces is essential. Otherwise, the Colorbound Clobberers with their light queen (being the Knight-Bishop compound) fall back against the other armies. Even small differences in the value of the pawns are multiplied by the fact that there are 8 of them. Giving the pawns different promotions enters the land of---slightly, but feelable---different pawns.
Patzer has definitely german relations, there is the verb 'verpatzen' in german, meaning to crab, to mull, to fluff, to foozle, to snafu. I don't know its further etymology, it is quite possible that it is either yiddish oder rotwelsch.
Now I found the time to look up patzen/Patzer in an etymological dictionary. It is a german word; deriving from the common german wird 'Batzen' (lump, chunk, glob; also a historic small coin minted in Switzerland) and showing Bavarian or Austrian spelling (B->P). Batzen is derived from 'Backen' (to bake).
I looked up patsy in the OED, it is attested in 1889, postdating the german use of Patzer. I assosciate the word Patzer to the Viennese coffee house chess culture, where chess master earned money playing against Patzers. It is the age of Steinitz (one generation before Einstein and Lasker) or even ealier.
Ah, and than there is another german word, related but not too close, 'patzig' meaning stroppy, snotty, bolshie. It describes the typical mood of teenagers very well.

David, that's a aice X-mas present for all of us! There is one minor poiint I want to correct (it is not your fault; already Jeliss has this particular sentence wrong): >null piece (Exotic): n. Piece that, combined with any other piece leaves it unaltered = Dummy = (0,0) leaper. Not the same as zero. Link(s): All the King's Men. [index] Source(s): [ATKM] Unique ID: [CVT-10825] A dummy is a piece without any move; as a leaper it is an \emptyset-leaper, not a (0,0)-leaper. A (0,0)-leaper has one move to its starting square, essentially the piece-bound licence to pass a move. This is always confounding to see that zero is something different from the emptyset.

The only measure to get solid information about the strength of a certain piece is to playtest it (in human play and/or computer play). As far as I know, there are few divergent pieces really tested. Mike Nelson's Seperate Realms Rook comes out on a value of about 75% Rook plus 25% Dabbabarider, suggesting that capture constitues about 3/4 of the piece value, while moving alone constitutes about 25%. But this particular piece has rather similar move and capture patterns; the more the patterns diverge, the more playtesting is needed, and there is probably no simple formula describing the results. Note also that the results of playtesting depend on the testbed: What board is choosen, what is the oppenent's army, what pieces are in the same army (sociability effects).
Some time ago, either in a published CV or in a discussion a new piece type called 'area mover' or 'areal mover' was proposed here. It was kind of a lame hook mover (known from large Shogi variants): It only could perform a hook move when the whole area (defined as the rightangle spanned by the two orthogonal rook moves) was free of intervening pieces. I tried to google the reference, but it wasn't indexed. Can someone remember the reference to this kind of piece?

The wording on the game maker's website is not very clear, but I interpret this dragon as a simple Q3 (a queen restricted to 3 steps in either direction). Nothing fancy here, no jumps.
I have an answer to your 2nd question: The R3 is named Kongo (Guardian of Gods) in Taikyoku Shogi. There's also a B3, named Rikishi (Wrestler) in Taikyoku Shogi. Note that the Taikyoku Shogi pieces move differently then pieces with the same name in other larger Shogi variants.

This is a fine leightweight strategical game for fun.

I have seen speculations (sorry, I don't have sources ready) about a precursor of the pawn: A forward moving piece using custodian capture (as in Tablut). It may be related to the game Petteia played in ancinet greece (the rules of that game are unfortunately lost). This explains the divergent nature of move and capture of the Shatranj pawn.

Here's a first pack of additions, all from the following new source: George Jelliss: Theory of Moves, Knight's Tour Notes 2001, http://www.ktn.freeuk.com/9a.htm Notes are mine and introduced by the tag Note: Piece Names caliph - compound leaper (0,1)+(2,2) Note: This is different from Charles Gilman's caliph Note: synonyms are waffle (CwdA) and phoenix (large Shogi variants) diamond - compound leaper (1,1)+(0,2) Note: synonyms for this piece are duke and kylin emperor - compound leaper (0,1)+(1,2) Note: a synonym is marquis (Derzhanski's list drawing from Adrian King) ferfil - compound leaper (1,1)+(2,2) Note: most established synonym on the CVP is 'modern elephant' frog - compound leaper (1,1)+(0,3). The simplest amphibian. hospitaler - compound leaper (1,2)+(2,2) prince - compound leaper (1,1)+(1,2) pterodactyl - compound leaper (3,3)+(5,5)+(0,15). The simplest triple range amphibian Note: I love this piece *because* it is so 'over the top' templar - compound leaper (0,2)+(1,2) wazaba - compound leaper (0,1)+(0,2) Note: synonym woody rook (CwdA) Piece terms amphibian - A compound leaper who can reach any square on the chess board whose components aren't free leapers free leaper - A leaper that can reach any square on a given board. On the standard 8x8 board there are 5 free leapers: wazir, knight, giraffe, zebra, and antelope.
Here are a few additions sourced from: Hans Gruber: Märchenschachlexikon, Schwalbe - Deutsche Vereinigung für Problemschach, zuletzt aktualisiert am 26.08.2011, http://www.dieschwalbe.de/lexikon.htm The source contains tons of information on fairy problem conditions and some pieces. Most of them are outside the scope of the Concise Guide to Chess Variants, but I propose the following additions: Piece names ibis - elemental piece, (1,5)-leaper lancer - elemental piece, (2,4)-leaper Note: This piece has a different german name, Hase (engl. hare) okapi - compound leaper (1,2)+(2,3) Note. If the charset is mangled, then: ä ist ae (a-umlaut) and ü ist ue (u-umlaut)
A few miscellaneous entries from the Chess Variant Pages Piece names capricorn - a hook mover moving on diagonal lines. Occurs in several large shogi variants hook mover - a hook mover on horizontal and vertical lines. Occurs in several large shogi variants querquisite - a piece that has the moves of the piece on its current file in the FIDE starting position. Synonym: oddyseus (see A. Sibahi: Querquisite Chess, http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSquerquisiteche ) Piece terms divergent piece - A piece with different capturing and non-capturing moves. Synonym: Sniper Source: A. J. Winkelspecht: Divergent Chess http://www.chessvariants.org/large.dir/contest/divergentchess.html hook mover - a piece that can optionally turn 90 degrees and move on. It can capture on its final square only. From large shogi variants. igui capture - restricted rifle capture of lion movers, capture on a adjacent square without moving lion mover - a piece that can do two moves in one turn, including the possibilities to capture two pieces in one turn, to pass the turn, or to capture one piece and then return to its starting square. Lion movement can be unrestricted (as in the lion of Chu Shogi) or restricted to certain directions (as in the soaring eagle or the horned falcon of Chu Shogi) planar piece - a kind of lame hook mover, a piece that can optionally turn 90 degrees and move on as long as the rectangle spanned by the two legs of its move is free from any other piece, friend or foo. It can capture only on its destination square. source: Gavin Smith: Prince http://www.chessvariants.org/3d.dir/prince.html
Sigh, link rot hits again. Fortunately, I have printed the Theory of Moves when it was available on the net. Christine, you found another nice reference, and I immediately love the names toad and newt for the other simple amphibians!
This is a suggestion to David: Add all contest winning games to the Game section. This gives a nice overview of the activity of the CVP community over a decade.
Hi Charles, I skimmed through my sources again and could not locate a reference to 'gazelle' as a synonym for the okapi (Knight-Zebra-compound). Where did you get it from? I share your feelings with respect to the name 'prince': it is quite unspecific and used for a whole bunch of pieces, most notably the commoner. The aim of my comment was to give a summary of this important source. Note that Jelliss gives prince for Knight+Ferz (not Knight+Wazir) following the male/female logic from the King/Queen pair. And problemists call the Janus/Palladin piece princess. The name hospital(l)er is worth mentioning for the knight-alfil compound, kangaroo as a synonym ist certainly worth mentioning, too. Outback Chess was a contest winning variant, at least. Going through my sources I found a synonym for the newt: it is called counsellor in Quang Trung Chess and this name propagated in Töws' piece creation system and in Ivan Derzhanski's list.

The lore apprentice (Zauberlehrling) of Lines of Relay is an offshot of the querquisite, I conceived it by misunderstanding its moves. See http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSlinesofrelay%28l

I am aware of the name Okapi for about a decade when I found it in several problem databases on fairy chess problems. However, a search here http://www.softdecc.com/pdb/search.pdb (enter PIECE='Okapi' in the query form) reveals some problems going back to 1970, Most Okapi problems are authored by Erich Bartels, but other prblemists joined the crew. If you have ever seen an okapi (I did, the Franfurt/Main zoo is a proud owner of the rare species), it is a particulary well choosen name for a horse-zebra vompound. Digging through references on Gazelle, I found it only as a synonym for Camel (the (1,3).-leaper) in Turkish great chess V http://www.chessvariants.com/large.dir/greatchessv.html This is confirmed by George Duke here: http://www.chessvariants.com/large.dir/falconpatent.html and George know more chess variant literature than I can ever dream of. The Ferz-Knight compound has the synonym priest - again a very unspecific name. It occurs in Töws' Generic chess piece creation system and Derzhanski's list. I once aggressively tracked names for compound leapers and noted them on paper, it looks like a good idea to put them on the CVP pages some time.
This is kind of a fun question: What would be a good male version of a Banshee?

MArk Hedden's frog (WFH in Betza notation) is taken from Adrian Kings games (Sciroco, Jupiter, and Typhoon). To distinguish it from Jelliss' frog (FH in Betza notation) one could call it frog king (derived from crowned frog, crowned being a standard prefix for forming names for pieces moving as a commoner + something).
25 comments displayed
Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.